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ArjandeWeger
22 February 2007, 07:53 AM
First I want to bring you all greetings from Holland. A cold wintering Holland its still winter
But we had the worst and spring is coming.

My aviary in winter Photo I took 2 weeks ago.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas003.jpg

I must apologise for not writing in your language I never learned it.
My Father in law still can he was so fortunate to live in your beautiful country for several years I never was so lucky.

What is a Dutchman doing on this site of Indonesiën bird lovers.
Well let me explain I am just like so many Dutchmen also a bird lover and among my
Different species of birds such as 5 different species of Laughing thrushes among them is the Hwamei there are 2 species coming from your country.
Both are very special and very precious because we have to realise that no more birds will be imported from your region of the world because of the bird flu.

The first one is a very special bird because it is very hard to breed although hundreds were imported there are now only a few left and for as far as I know I am the only one who breaded this bird it is the Black headed bulbul Pycnonotus atriceps I was told you call him the Piang Piang

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/zwartkopfriendsforlive.jpg

The other one who is luckily not so hard to breed is the Shama Cosypha malabaricus known to you as the Muray Batu.

As you know there are a great number of special types of this bird we in Holland lack the knowledge to sort the different types out a few years ago we only had two types the great one and the little one now we are beginning to understand there are so many more differences .

OK we do not know the differences the birds do.
So I have a couple of Muray Batu for more than a year but nothing happened no mating no affection they just were not interested in each other.

So I was searching for an other female. I found one who looked very much like my male and bought her. Now it’s a complete different story the male is now very interested is singing all day and the female returns with her beautiful song.

David de Souza you might know him from his site and the Malaysian forum told me that he thinks that my male (I call him Beauty) is coming from Sumatra from the area of Medan.

Photo off Beauty
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Negative0-36-361.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Negative0-30-301.jpg

some photo's of the new female We named her Madonna because of her singing quality and she is sexy

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas011.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas012.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas013.jpg


So I have good hope I solved half of the problem.

What leaves Pearl my female bird Beauty was not interested in can someone tell me what kind of a Muray Batu this bird is an send me a photo of the sort of male I will have to look for.

Photo of Pearl

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Kippen020.jpg

Pearl in the snow

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas005-1.jpg

An other question I think you are the only one who can answer is about a special Muray Batu
Known to you as the Lampung A friend of mine is sure to have a couple of this species and he’s looking for answers. It’s a special type of Muray Batu qua structure and also has a different song one of his friends from Indonesian origin already suggested it was a Lampung and this was lately confirmed when he was looking at the photo’s off Prayogi which he was so kind to share on the Malaysian forum there he found Photo’s of Muray Batu called Lampung now we know Lampung is an area at the most south point of Sumatra under the smoke of The Krakatou.
He has the following questions?
He would like to receive Photo’s of this species.
Information about the seize of the nest and the amount of eggs. How to get them in breeding condition the differences in compel to other Shama’s?
Is it a common bird or rare how do you rate it’s singing quality
Any information about their singing.
And everything you know about this kind of Muray Batu whatever you consider a true bird lover should know.
I am so happy to have found this forum and hope to learn very much from all of you.
Off course I will be very helpful with all kind off questions about the European birds who are in your care. So maybe we can help each other.

Arjan de Weger

ndoro agung
22 February 2007, 08:03 AM
Hellooo...MENERRRRRRRRRRR?????:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
(sayang saya cuma itu thok he ngertinya...heheheheheh:p :p :p :p :p )..

tatanka
22 February 2007, 09:11 AM
Welcome mr.arjand join kicaumania community to experience and science.. :D :D (sama mas pur..heheheh)

Whireng
22 February 2007, 09:51 AM
"Wellcome in this forum"


Talking about of Bird especially Murai Batu, Meener Copral and Meener Sukur hidayat are right person to inform you .

And "Meener Arjen" can find some information about "Murai Batu" in "Forum" and choose "Murai Batu". Many information on there..

Hopefully you can enjoy in this forum.


" BRAVO KICAU MANIA "



Whireng Hardyatmoo.

satrio
22 February 2007, 09:55 AM
Hi arjande weger. It is good to hear from u in this Forum. You are very welcome.... I have read your posting at MBF and i also good friend of Mr. David De Souza. Say hi from me for himm .. he he he he
Any way, U have very nice shamas.. and do you think they like the winter there? it looked awfull...

By the way, As the KM's rule, please introduce yourself to "perkenalan". U can use "forum jump" at the box bellow and find "perkenalan". That's it and you'll become KM-er.. he he he he he

thanks
satrio

LeoN0211
22 February 2007, 10:01 AM
welcome to join in KM,sharing2 your information about bird in holland...
(salah ga ya....???)

nusas
22 February 2007, 10:07 AM
Dear Mr.Weger,

Nice to meet you.
I dont know what kind of Murai Batu pearl is, but i'm sure its a female as the color of the black is not dark and shiny.
As human, it is possible that a male does not like a female (not his type) or the other way around.


Every murai is special no matter where it comes from. however, here in Indonesia, at the moment, Murai from Medan is the favorite. Some believe that Medan produces Murai which is tough, brave, beautiful (longer tail), etc.
as for the singging quality, it depend on the "mastering process" and the quality of parental gen.

no different in the breeding condition for medan, lampung, kalimantan, etc. murai. Climate differences might give you more hassle, as we have no winter and spring season. If the bird comes from Indonesia or Malaysia, I dont think it can adapt nicely to such weather...which might effect the breeding/mating process. based on your aviary picture, you are using outdoor aviary which is weather affected. Some breeders in Indonesia are having trouble during summer with their production (too hot and dry)

only my one cent (never successful in breeding). I am sure other KMers can better broaden your knowledge

seno
22 February 2007, 10:36 AM
Hi Arjande, welcome to Kicau Mania Community and nice to meet you.
Before KM members sharing shama breeding experience, first of all you should introduce yourself in thread "perkenalan" (no excuse) hehehe..like om satrio Said.

But welcome to KM any way.....

byan
22 February 2007, 10:53 AM
WELCOME__ MENEER


TLONG DOONG POSTINGAN MR MENER___DITERJERMAHKAN KE BOSO INDONESIA :D :eek: :confused:

seno_yudho
22 February 2007, 11:14 AM
Welcome Meneer, (padahal kalo didesaku, di Jatim sono Meneer itu beras yang hancur jadi kecil-kecil kayak pasir he3X), How are you, piye you can speak Indonesia po ra? Becouse my english language just litle-litle saja, yah litle-litle I can lah,gitu.
But, welcome to Km Meneer, please enjoy.

niceguy
22 February 2007, 01:16 PM
intinya om De Wenger pengen berkenalan lebih jauh dan membahas mengenai MB nya,,, terutama yg di foto ketiga, karena pernah ada orang yg bilang kalo itu MB lampung dan beliau minta di kirimi foto MB lampung jantan supaya bisa di breeding juga sama dia,,,,,
ternyata dia suka sama burung-2 dr asia, terutama muray batu..
sayang nih orang posting perkenalan sekaligus posting MB,, gue mau split susah nih,, maklum mod gaptek hehehe

anyway welcome Mr. Arjen De Weger.......
before reading your postings, I never realize that most of Dutchmen are love singing birds,,,,,wonder how u can get your collection of Asian birds....??


( blum aja dia kena burungnya om Sxxxxxxx,, yg bisa buat cas AM hahaha)

4ndriecht
22 February 2007, 01:25 PM
Hello meneer,
ane juga lagi kepincut sama MB he heheheh

Welcome aboard lah.

Mas_dony
22 February 2007, 01:58 PM
Welcome to KM Mr. Arjen (bukan Robben ya??).
(bisanya cm ini...he..he..he..)

Roels
22 February 2007, 02:26 PM
Welcome aboard Mr. Weger..

Nice collections you got there.. especially Beauty and the Black headed bulbuls. And I'm surprised that the Shamas can survive in the winter (snow) since there is no winter season in their origin habitat.

Good luck with your project sir!

ArjandeWeger
4 March 2007, 06:08 AM
Hello bird friends in MB country.

Your questions how MB does in the cold well they need to adapt slowly
but they are free to go to a warmer place which is heated but as you see the female is outdoors almost all of the day.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas005.jpg

the male prefers a warmer place and only comes outdoor when there is something going on like me coming with his treats.
Now spring is coming no more snow I hope I allready have my first nest we
hope they hatch tomorrow. Not MB but from a bird closely related to MB
Cosypha albi capilla

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/White-crowned20robin-chat-1.jpg

I'm still hoping to find some information about the Lampung MB

here two photo's off female's of this type of MB

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/LAMPUNG1.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/lampung4.jpg

I would be very happy with all kind of information about this type of MB.

Thank you in advance

sh
4 March 2007, 06:31 AM
Good morning Arjan,
I believe that MB is tough bird, I mean MB is hard to defeat by weather.
My MBs always in the room all the time, but they still sing, hale and healty.
By the way, MB Lampung is not the favorite MB, MB Lampung has the shorter tail. His sound is softer than MB "Medan".
I never have one of them.

Ronny
4 March 2007, 08:03 AM
Thanks Arjan, to have joined forces with us in KM. you have very good MB but I was surprised to see your MB which can stay/survive at snow season (Winter), how many degrees when the winter come ? anyway
I agree with SyukurHidayat that it is true Lampung MB have less compared to Medan MB. and Lampung MB nor have long tail so that at the time of Lampung MB contest beautiful invisible it is true in comparing with Medan MB. So that you know, Medan MB is very good display and have voice variation and which is many and most importantly from this Medan MB is to Bouncing to contend stable.
To be more recognize about Lampung Shamas, possible you can ask to Copjend, he has good experience for shamas especially for chick shamas.

Regards

niceguy
4 March 2007, 06:04 PM
if there;s any question from Mr. Arjan, please post it here.
let's discuss together...

now about MB lampung,, ( lampung is indication of it's origin )
anyway, for me it's not a problem where it cames from,,, as long as it has big volume, nice looking, smart and mentally good.
thats my type of MB, never mind where it came from.

regards

ArjandeWeger
4 March 2007, 08:22 PM
Let me tell you what is so special about this Lampung MB.

A friend of mine noticed a stange MB larger than normal short tailed and a different song. He's much more experienced than I am so he allready had some thoughts that this could be a special MB He tryed to find out it's origine and name but he could not lay his finger on it.

A few weeks ago I showed him the MBF and while he was browsing that forum he found the photo album of Prayogi and he called me with excitament that he found his mystery bird in that photo album and the name is Lampung so we looked where Lampung is :In the South of Sumatra under the smoke of the Krakatou.

That the Lampung might not be a high ranked kind of MB in your Chai's is not so important to us. But that this kind of MB is in one of our Aviary's is and we will try to keep this kind just because it's special.

That is why we want to know everything of this bird everything ther is to know.
About breeding? How many egg'setc etc.
And Photo's

About the winter and how much cold can they endure.
I don't want to find that out as soon there is a cold night I make sure my precious ones are save in their night shelter and close the gate.
But at night they always sleep in door.

It can be bitter cold over here the coldest night was about 2 years ago
minus 23 degrees Celcius. But all my birds survived.

I remember that day my Blackheaded buulbuls had Hatchlings in that bitter cold. Luckely We had breeded a lot of Mots just in case but spring kept away that jear so eventually the chicks did not survive.

Regards

cj
20 March 2007, 09:42 AM
hai arjan ...

I'm Prayogi, can you login to http://s175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/muraiku/ which the my password ...? and you will see my lampung shama that I keep starting 2 years ago.

As refference from Map distribution the Shama Copsychus malabaricus from Helmut Dst 1964, all sumatra shama call "C. M. TRICOLOR", but every area have specific shama.

As general from Sumatra going to north all shama has long tailed start from Jambi province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jambi), but jambi has two (2) kinds of shama, long tailed and short tailed. Long tailed jambi shama close to Riau Province (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riau), short tailed Jambi shama close to South of Sumtra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Sumatra). The Shama from Lampung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lampung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lampung)) as general has specific:
- Small size of the body
- Shorter tailed than North Sumatra (Medan)
- Less song variation
- Monoton singing, repeat song compare with Medan many variation.
- Due to has long tailed, The lampung very good acting when singing compare Medan.
- The feather (brown) less shine, compare with Medan

To get more perfect Shama especially for competion, some of breeder cross breeding between Shama North Sumatra Vs Shama Lampung. I heard mr. Abun successfuly cross both of shama, I will give you contact number if you want to contact him.

I have shama from Bengkulu (Lampung, due to short tailed), that a good shama like good mentallity, my lampung shama I keep from juvenile ....

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/muraiku/P3120022.jpg
Lampung when juvenile

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/muraiku/P3130142.jpg
After #1 moulting

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/muraiku/PB091016.jpg
Close moulting #2

Nice to talk shama with you by this Forum ...

moel_sip
20 March 2007, 10:23 AM
wah paruh MB yg habis mandi itu lho mantap...kepala oke ..mata oke..bener2 pilihan seorang ahli di bidangnya..he he he ....

kapan punya MB kayak gitu.....

Ronny
20 March 2007, 10:37 AM
eleuh..eleuh...eleuh..ane demen tuh sama yang habis mandi..Paruhnya menunjukan suara yang kueenceeeng....
Memang kalau pilihan pakar mah lain euy...he..he..he..

cj
20 March 2007, 03:39 PM
Itu MB Lampung (Bengkulu) bos ... ketiga gambar tsb ya satu burung: saat trotol , selesai mabung#1 dan mau mabung#2.

moel_sip
20 March 2007, 04:13 PM
Wah kapan ya punya MB kayak itu...ngidam berat nih....

OM yogi kapan2 saya hibahin 1 saja dah koleksi sampeyan....biar kecipratan pinternya nih....sicomet juga gak apa2..atau si gajahmada juga boleh....yang penting MB om.....

ArjandeWeger
21 March 2007, 06:13 AM
Hello Prayogi

Nice to hear from you.
I heard you all ready were in contact with my Friend Sjef v.d. Branden.
He is the one having the Lampung.
We over here in Holland are trying to figure out what kind of Shama's there are in South East Asia.
Over the last decades lots of Shama's were traded to Europe but only as one species the Shama fore a few months my only knowledge was that there was a big Shama and a little one.
You can understand what an eye opener David’s site was first time I saw it.
So I became interested and found out a lot about this beautiful bird.
On the MBF I came in contact with David and some week ago I saw your Photo bucket album were we found the first prove of the existence of the Lampung.
I want to use all this knowledge about Shama's for better breeding in Holland in general and for me personal I will try to breed the type of Shama such as Beauty my male bird .

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Negative0-36-361.jpg

I really have to make some new Photo's of him.
But Beauty is a start I want to try to give it a more power full posture and to increase the length of his tail.
I think the tail can grow maybe one or two inches longer by better nutrition.
David thinks it's a Medan Shama. What do you think he is? His song is getting better and better it’s very powerful lots of variation but it's also very hard to tell because I have nothing to compare to.

His new companion is Madonna I bought some months ago because he did not show any interest in the female Pearl whom he was with for more than a year.

I was very happy to have found Madonna because of her great likeness compared with Beauty.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas012.jpg

I have no idea about the length of her tail because they are damaged

The minute Beauty spotted her he was interested His song improved he became more vivid I placed Madonna in a big Aviary with greenhouse opposite the aviary Beauty was at a distance of 9/10 meters.
It was about 2 weeks ago I spotted Madonna trying to build e nest inside a plant basket so I placed Beauty in the greenhouse in a large cage
and replaced the plant by a nesting box prescribed by David.
I caught all the other birds out so the Shama's had this Aviary and greenhouse all by them selves.
I also started to spoil her with all the goodies I could lay my hands on.
Crickets, spiders, Morio's, Moth's bee larves etc.
It took Madonna one day to finish her nest. I admit I gave her a hand.
After one day I released Beauty and it all went just as David wrote Beauty inspected the nest what happened next I could not see but it all happened in great harmony four days later Sunday 11 march I found her first egg After that day three days on a raw eggs were laid on the fourth day she started to breed but one day later she laid her last egg number 5.
Tomorrow she completes her first week off breeding.
So we are very excited how this will proceed.

In the mean time we will have Saturday our first Dutch Chai a meeting of about a 15 to 20 MB breeders in Holland so we can make an inventory what kind of birds are present in Holland.

Last question to you.
Pearl my poor bird Beauty was never interested in. Do you have any idea what kind of MB she is?

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Kippen020.jpg

As for my other birds you can read about it in my introduction perkenalan
Which was very hard to find if you don't speak one word Indonesian.

Anyway nice to meet you.
And now I will have a look at your Photo’s

Salam

Ronny
21 March 2007, 08:06 AM
Ok Arjan, Good luck...
We hoppely also that you can breeding kind of Indonesia's Shamas in Holland.
Anyway thanks a alot arjen, you prefer to choise Indonesia's Shamas (Sumatra) for breeding.

Regards
Ronny

niceguy
21 March 2007, 12:23 PM
I really envy you mr. Weger........
I never succeded in breeding Shama,, ( since very busy concentrating on singing contest,,,,,,)
also they said that in a small house like mine, it's not suitable for mating shamas when there;s another male shamas around....
once the female was almost dead after the male force her for mating...
also it's really quite difficult to find ideal mate for both male and female.

and for your pearl,,,,,, how long have u keep her ?
seems like it's still a juvenille shama,, or maybe it's ugly kind of female hahaha.
anyway, dont be expected on the first laid eggs,, usually it's fertilized. but maybe with good nutrition the result will be very good.
anyway,,, keep on updating sir....

ArjandeWeger
23 March 2007, 06:03 AM
Just some photo's for sharing.

The aviary where it all Happens
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shama007.jpg

The one who did it
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shama004.jpg

She sits with the problem
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shama009.jpg

Here are the problems
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shama010.jpg

cj
23 March 2007, 06:20 AM
Wow fantastic ... it's my ide ....

I'ts very nice aviary .... I have a dream ...

Talking about your Pearl shama, The picture like female shama, bur I have shama like this that 1 (one) month ago brought my frind, my shama is male. I dont think where my shama come from exactly, but sure from sumatra.

Below is my pearl shama:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w160/muraiku/PB121120.jpg

Thanks four your aviary picture !

niceguy
23 March 2007, 01:18 PM
5 eggs ????? what a female,,,,,,,,, with good nutrition can lay until 5 eggs...
good luck on the future babies,,,,, keep updating

ArjandeWeger
1 April 2007, 05:54 AM
Unfortunatly all 5 eggs were unfertile.
Lets hope for the best next round.
Sayang

cj
1 April 2007, 06:25 AM
I'm sorry to hear that ...

What's your analyst & evaluate ? Maybe due to weather not suitable or others?

ArjandeWeger
2 April 2007, 05:35 AM
Good question

This time it was a male problem maybe the male is not fertile al all or was not ready and has to become fertile in matter of time.
Time will tell.

How can you see from an egg who is to blame male or female?
If this is not known you might translate it so you all can read.

The infertile egg.

It happens to us all a nest with beautiful eggs we wait and wait but nothing happens.
Infertile eggs what a waist.
Well it may happen next time better.
But what if it keeps happening, you might have a dilemma. What is the cause is it the man or the female? A 50% chance?

Last I read an article about how you could see from an egg if the female is infertile.
And if not infertile than the cause is about 80 % the cause is a male problem.
Let’s share.

All you need are a few chicken eggs. And a plate .
Break the egg carefully to keep the yolk complete and put it on the plate.

Now you watch the top off the yolk and there on the very top you will see
A white dot photo 1 that white dot is the oocyte that is the female egg cell.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/eieren006.jpg

This oocyte is always on top of the yolk because there the oocyte is in the best position
close to the breeding heat off the bird who breeds the egg.
The spirals photo 2 are proteins attached to the yolk to keep the oocyte on top.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/eieren010.jpg

If the oocyte is not there the female bird is 100% not fertile.
If the oocyte is visible the chance the cause of an infertile male is < 80%

The female egg cell(oocyte) is the largest cell there is an can be seen with the naked eye.
As soon the oocyte is unified with a sperm cell it is called the zygote which is the cell from which all future cells off the bird will derived

Ghozze
2 April 2007, 12:44 PM
Hi Ajan...

Can I put my opinion?
How come a shama could get 5 eggs in one clutch? I think those are too many. In my opinion, birds could be laid their eggs if they have enough or over nutrient even though they have not mate at all.

I used to have the evidence with my parrot years ago. She laid eggs with good nutrient such as honey, milk, germs, fruits etc, she has no male.

Become a problem when we can not hundred percent understood or know if they have did mate or not. All we know there is a couple in there (male and female) and believe they had mate.

My conclusion, the hen just laid the eggs as she was sexually mature and enough nutrient for her diets without mating.

If the above are not makes any senses, do try to change your pairs to others females or males and see who is wrong among them.

If infertilty is occurred in this case, I prefer to believe those male that most likely infertile. Did the hen laid her eggs? Yes! So why there is not a hatch? Those sperm did not make it happens. That my opinion...

Regards
Ghozze

niceguy
2 April 2007, 08:38 PM
just want to say

"keep trying and never give up, please......"

ArjandeWeger
18 April 2007, 05:04 AM
After the deception of our first nest 5 eggs all infertile.
Madonna my new female bird started het second nest.
This time 4 eggs during this time I got an advice from David to remove some feathers around the claoca from the birds but It seemed wise to wait a bit and not catch Madonna during her egg laying period.
My plan was to leave Madonna alone check the eggs after 4 days off breeding and if second time infertile I could easely catch her on the nest do what David told me remove the eggs and wait for the next round.
So I did but to my great joy the eggs were all fertile.
So the waiting started.
Our calculation was that the eggs should hatch on my Birthday 16 April
Friday 13 April I noticed 1 egg missing
Sunday evening the day before hatching another egg was missing.
I had kept the infertile eggs from the first round and placed 2 old eggs in the nest so I increased the chance for the 2 remaining eggs.
Next morning on my Birthday there was a real birthday present

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/JongeShamas002.jpg

This morning the other egg hatched.


Now let's hope all goes well

Ronny
18 April 2007, 07:50 AM
Congratulation Arjan,
Now your shamas were hatched...
I hope, this round you will found your lacks.
I never breed the shamas but I will, cause as you know that to found the good female shamas in indonesia are little bit difficult.
The breeder from indonesia told to me that most of the time, the shamas laid the eggs less than 5 eggs (3 or 4 eggs). sometime when the chicks of shamas grow up, the couple will start again to laid the eggs...
So, my suggestion better you put two nest in different corner.
next.....
MB is The Best.

ben
18 April 2007, 04:29 PM
Hi Arjan,
Good News. Nice to hear that. What a birthday present!!! And Happy Birhtday to you. I completely agree with Ronny's advise to place another nesting box. Keep posting about the progress. Good Job !!!! Two thumbs Up.

faisalbachrak
18 April 2007, 05:32 PM
:congrat: :congrat:

Congratulation n Happy Birthday Mr. Weger

Let's hope the baby bird just fine..

And looks alike you gonna have "Double Birthday" :metultah:

You and your baby bird.......:missing :missing

niceguy
19 April 2007, 01:15 AM
what a gift...... congrats......
keep updating. please

ArjandeWeger
21 April 2007, 06:01 AM
Baby Shama's 4 days old.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/JongeShamas001.jpg

Ghozze
21 April 2007, 01:02 PM
Baby Shama's 4 days old.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/JongeShamas001.jpg

Hi Arjan

I didn't see the picture(s). So, you got two chicks out 4 eggs of this clutch? Congratulation anyway!

Cheers
Ghozze

karom
21 April 2007, 01:14 PM
Hi Arjan,


wow !! ... I never realized that there is such an interested topics like this in this forum .. by the way, belated congrats for your baby shama .. it is the dreaming of everyone of us here who love shama or we called it MB


please keep us posted of the development and the growth .. I guess they are not MB Lampung anymore as they are now holding a Holland Passport isn't it .. :)


I personally will learn alot from you about shama breeding who knows I can be following your steps to become a shama breeder after my retirement ..


keep up the good works :topbanget:



Hi Arjan

I didn't see the picture(s). So, you got two chicks out 4 eggs of this clutch? Congratulation anyway!

Cheers
Ghozze

niceguy
21 April 2007, 01:21 PM
the 2 other eggss is the infertilized egg from earlier period...
it's better to take it out now,,, so the 2 babies can grow up with more space.

thanks for keep updating.

Ghozze
21 April 2007, 04:14 PM
Hi Arjan,


wow !! ... I never realized that there is such an interested topics like this in this forum .. by the way, belated congrats for your baby shama .. it is the dreaming of everyone of us here who love shama or we called it MB


please keep us posted of the development and the growth .. I guess they are not MB Lampung anymore as they are now holding a Holland Passport isn't it .. :)


I personally will learn alot from you about shama breeding who knows I can be following your steps to become a shama breeder after my retirement ..


keep up the good works :topbanget:


Hi Pak Kwachid

He...he...he... ???

I am not reg onto our forum in the other world...yet... I am still in hunting... nothing to be share, at least lah. But I will ...

Frankly... Arjan's picture is not come up in mine.... now on Arjan is sleeping, I think. He...eee...

Cheers
Ghozze

ArjandeWeger
23 April 2007, 12:25 AM
six days

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/JongeShamas002-1.jpg

ArjandeWeger
25 April 2007, 03:53 AM
Day 8

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/JongeShamas005.jpg

ben
25 April 2007, 09:44 AM
Hi Arjan,
Great Job my man. What do you feed them and how frequent?

niceguy
25 April 2007, 09:41 PM
thank for the amazing updating....

Ibnu_hz
25 April 2007, 10:12 PM
Thanks for sharing ... GEF for you :)

ArjandeWeger
26 April 2007, 05:27 AM
Hello bird friends

Sorry for not always responding but I'm just a bit busy at the moment.
Kwachid they have no nationality just birds of the world.
Maybe we could learn something from theme No country's no religian like Imagine from John Lennon. That would really be something.
What do I feed theme?
Well I give every day Tuned mealworms crickets Morio's larve's off bee's frog lets but I don't think they will take any off what I offer.
I will show photo's off it tomorrow because it's to complicated to tell.
But when you see the photo's you will understand.
New photo's tomorrow.
See you.

yobenbingung
26 April 2007, 10:36 AM
Hello bird friends

Sorry for not always responding but I'm just a bit busy at the moment.
Kwachid they have no nationality just birds of the world.
Maybe we could learn something from theme No country's no religian like Imagine from John Lennon. That would really be something.
What do I feed theme?
Well I give every day Tuned mealworms crickets Morio's larve's off bee's frog lets but I don't think they will take any off what I offer.
I will show photo's off it tomorrow because it's to complicated to tell.
But when you see the photo's you will understand.
New photo's tomorrow.
See you..

Thanks for update informationt about baby shama. Ill be waiting next time. I give u GEF. shama in indonesia is MB ( Murai Batu ). if u want KM will be happy birthday an any event 13 Mei 2007 at Jakarta City town, indonesia.many friends will come.at Even KICAUMANIA I CUP .

ArjandeWeger
27 April 2007, 06:03 AM
:oops:

No photo of day 10 and no photo's off the food recourse as I promised
I'll keep that in store.
This afternoon my wife went in the green house to refresh the nectar
when something in the corner of her eye caught her attention.
One little MB baby was sitting in a plant. It left the nest one day earlier as expected
The little one flew up and when I came to see what all the commotion was about, I saw one little MB who flew straight as an arrow banged against the wall and fell on the ground. Madonna and Beauty were rather upset and made alarming noises.
This was what David warned me about. I wanted to place some blankets on the floor this evening but realised I was to late.
Best was to leave the happy family alone because any disturbance made the little one fly with the risqué of damaging her/him self.
Also their is no need to enter because we can provide food in the aviary.
Because of the camera installed in the greenhouse we can see what happens on our television .
We see the little one sitting on a branch in the prune tree Beauty has taken over Madonna's role off feeding. And so he does bringing food to the nest and to the one who is now sitting quietly on the branch he hovers in front off the little one careful approach feeds the chick and off he goes for another portion.
After the kids had enough he goes outside to sing with lots off tail hopping
Because I declared the greenhouse out off bounds for a few days I have no idea what Madonna is doing.
It looks Beauty is now the providing parent and Madonna has a different Agenda.
Because I want to minimise the disturbance no photo today Sorry.

yobenbingung I did not understand your message KM I don't know what that means.

Ghozze
27 April 2007, 11:49 AM
Arjan

A good update so far...

I think you have no needs to laid the blanket on the floor. Do those birds have to get the experience anyway? By the way, they will get strong body.

Have you prepared the identification rings? I think best time to fit it up is under a month old of the age. FYI, I got problem to put ring when they are about 2 months old. With a little bit palm oil on the feet will help it in. Except you have no plan to put the rings.

With respect to Yoben; he expected to see your updates more, and conratulates your success in shama breeding. He also explains the Indonesian shama's name is Murai Batu. KM is short of Kicau Mania means singing-birds lovers as the web's name as well; there will be a gathering to celebrate this web unniversary even every May, 13th followed by song competion named Kicau Mania Cup (the 1st even will be held on 13 may next month, venue at Jakarta). Hope you understand. Thanks

Cheers
Ghozze - Solo

karom
28 April 2007, 12:24 AM
Hi Arjan,

May I suggest to you something, since you have installed a camera in the greenhouse, it would be better to video records their activities, this way you don't really bother them rather than taken a photograph which somehow can be a disturbance.

And of-course you have to share the video to this forum for the sake of the forum members who patiently waiting for your baby shama update

Cheers,

cj
28 April 2007, 05:07 AM
Pak Arjan,

Congratulation to your baby shama. It's great sound hear your success to breed your shama. I really appreciate your breeding successfuly!

Someday I'd like to breed my shama, I wish my dream come true, let's share your experiences especially constraint & problem related with climate in your country it's very different in my country.

Oke Pak Arjan, feel free share & explain to our community ...

ArjandeWeger
29 April 2007, 07:50 AM
Pak Birdsfriends

Yesterday the other young flew out so they both left the nest on day 10.
They allready fly temarcable well they can land properly on a branch or a plant but sometimes they also forget what thy are doing and land on the floor so I really have to watch where I put my feet.
The photo's I took today are poorly sorry but as I checked them on the computer and wanted to make better one's the Battery was exhaustedso here are the 2 best photo's

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/jongeshamas002.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/jongeshamas005.jpg

I also promissed some photo's of what kind of food I provide

the next poor photo's are showing boxes containing old coterminated bee rates beekeepers use to gather honey. last year i could buy those conterminated rates and placed them in boxes and now I keep them in tree different places and all kind off insects are coming out off these boxes, I hardly have to feed the MB .

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/jongeshamas007.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/jongeshamas008.jpg

niceguy
29 April 2007, 10:44 AM
is it BEE as the insect ? is it the adult bee or larva ? as long as I know bee larva is one of the best insect for shama.
wondering if shama can eat adult bee or not ? coz' really afraid of the sting that can kill birds....

anyway,, nice photos,, nice sharing,,,, it's a baby boy Sir... ( Hopefully )
but I am quiet sure it's a male baby shama. in both pics,, maybe the same bird

ArjandeWeger
1 May 2007, 06:12 AM
I do feed bee larve's out off the freezer
but the old bee rate's (it might be a wrong word bee nest might be better)
is a place full off nutrician for all kinds of insect's no stinging bees but moth's
and larve's of moth's.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/jongeshamas013.jpg


http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/jongeshamas015.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/jongeshamas016.jpg

Are they not beautiful?
They can fly quit good now and because they don't bump against the wall anymore we enter the greenhouse frequently so they get to know us.

Today I found a new egg from Madonna so a new nest is started

cj
1 May 2007, 12:18 PM
pK Arjan,

Nice picture .... my questions:
* Both of baby shama male or female?
* How to give u menu for baby shama everyday, I see look like a healthy
* How old the baby shama you separate from his mother/father.

Thanks for sharing ....

ArjandeWeger
1 July 2007, 06:29 AM
Pak all Shama friends. it's been a while because I had to overcome some problems.
My third nest of the Shama's went the same as nest 2 again just before hatching 2 eggs disappeared just like the nest before I placed 2 old infertile eggs but unfortunately she Madonna my female Shama again reduced the eggs to two by removing the good eggs so we had nothing.
Our fourth nest 4 eggs . In the mean time I had bought an incubator and a bird recover case so we had more options now I took 2 eggs from the nest at day 8 and placed the eggs in the incubator the plan was to replace the young’s as they had hatched.
But unfortunately at day 10 Madonna's nest was empty I found one broken egg with a full grown embryo on the flour of the greenhouse.
We had to reconsider.
Nest 5: 3 eggs after 3 days the fourth egg .
Now our conclusion was: Madonna as soon as she feels live in the egg she removes it.
So given this conclusion I took out all the eggs at day 9 replace old infertile eggs and one new egg from a new couple (But that is a different story) I placed the eggs in the incubator and waited all three eggs hatched in between four hours one by one I replaced the chicks with the broken shells and we were very happy Madonna excepted all three.
It was a mind breaking experience but we finally broke the spiral.
From that moment all went well without any problem.
this photo was taken two days ago.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Jongeshamas2enest29-6-07002.jpg

last afternoon they were air born.

niceguy
1 July 2007, 12:52 PM
another nice sharing,, what makes madonna did that ? seems like she want to laid another new egg so she threw away the eggs before...

anyway I salute you to your spirits to save the eggs and babies..

a very good job Sir...........

Ghozze
2 July 2007, 11:55 AM
Hi Arjan

My feeling said, that madonna wanna shares responsibility to care the babies with you. You've to be involved in the process instead just waiting and watching... So enjoyed! Great success indeed!

Cheers
Ghozze

zalthie
2 July 2007, 01:15 PM
It was so wonderful, I wish I can have a breeder like that some day. I send you PM sir, please share your experience to me and all my friends here in this lovely forum.

Cheers

ArjandeWeger
4 July 2007, 09:11 PM
just some photo's of our new ones.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Jongeshamas2enest3-7-2007001.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Jongeshamas2enest3-7-2007003.jpg

Madonna and kid
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Jongeshamas2enest3-7-2007007.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Jongeshamas2enest3-7-2007002.jpg

And our latest project
This one is breeded in the incubater and is nor 3 days old.
The egg is from a new couple we bougt a few weeks ago after being a week in their new aviary I found 2 eggs but the female did not breed them
One egg broke in the incubater and this is the result of the other egg.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shama2handopfoknest14-7-2007001.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shama2handopfoknest14-7-2007003.jpg

Ronny
4 July 2007, 09:50 PM
Even you couldn't spoke indonesian language, but you still willing to expectation to share your experience to this forum, also you never give up to do experiment for the shama. Now, you share all your experience especially for the great bird in the world 'Copsycus Malabarycus' / white rumped shama.
Thus, i gave you GEF for that.
Thanks Arjan, please don't hesitate to share all ur' experience to us, eventhough we still need your experiences.
Warm regards

ismanto
5 July 2007, 01:30 PM
Hi Arjande Weger...

I just want say to you that...

Congratulation.... and wonderful project....

I really interested.... esspecially for breed in the incubators.

How to do that? please tell us.....espesiallly spesification of the incubator (Raw material, temparature, dimention, etc...)


I hope you could share your experince and knowlegde about bird and breeder to us....


thank's for all


Regard's

Aniki
12 December 2007, 02:07 AM
where are you mr. arjen??


wah wah, blom sempet kenalan neh aye ama ente.... uda lama juga ya... jangan2 uda kejual smua neh MB nya....

Ari JB
12 December 2007, 01:17 PM
[QUOTE=ArjandeWeger;31048]First I want to bring you all greetings from Holland. A cold wintering Holland its still winter
But we had the worst and spring is coming.

My aviary in winter Photo I took 2 weeks ago.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas003.jpg

I.

Photo off Beauty
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Negative0-36-361.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Negative0-30-301.jpg

some photo's of the new female We named her Madonna because of her singing quality and she is sexy

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas011.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas012.jpg

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas013.jpg



Photo of Pearl

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Kippen020.jpg

Pearl in the snow

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a328/ArjandeWeger/Shamas005-1.jpg



I just can say awesome taking care ,..
Arjan, very iteresting how could you be success breed the Muray in your wheather whiches deffenetly deferent with the nature habitat of muray. Would you please share with us from the day one you bring, adaptation and so on until now. (well might be you had done before if yes would you tell the link please) I'm really currious. Specially when the winter time, as I knew almost bird doing migration from their habitat on winter time even fall they already gone. I thinking Muray same family with Mockingbird in USA, they doing the same doing winter.
I saw from one of your pic. they are fine playing in between the branches with the snow.
Anyway awesome.........2 tombs up

kungmania
12 December 2007, 01:45 PM
Waduhhh banyak boso linggisnya ..... !!!
sayang daku dah bersumpah pake SOEMPAH PEMOEDA 1928 ...... satoe bahasa bahasa indonesia .... !!!

jadi cumin bisa liat gambar-gambar yg nyenengke ati ... !!!

monggo dilanjut ... salut buat member yg boso linggisnya OK ... bisa bantu member bule ... !!!
Sorry OOT

Next again Mr ...

Nuwun

rdm.bendol
13 December 2007, 08:50 PM
:haha:
Waduhhh banyak boso linggisnya ..... !!!
sayang daku dah bersumpah pake SOEMPAH PEMOEDA 1928 ...... satoe bahasa bahasa indonesia .... !!!

jadi cumin bisa liat gambar-gambar yg nyenengke ati ... !!!

monggo dilanjut ... salut buat member yg boso linggisnya OK ... bisa bantu member bule ... !!!
Sorry OOT

Next again Mr ...

Nuwun

:haha: ......::))

XiaXia
14 December 2007, 12:20 AM
Hmm...i had a tought in my mind...now you have already succesfully breed shama...can you tell my how to tell the different among sexes,male and female,when they just last say 2 trough 6 month old.Have you had a different way...if you have would you kindly enough share that information with us here:-S .

kungmania
14 December 2007, 10:25 AM
Hello M.ArjandeWeger

Hoe u bent ? boete ?
Welkom dit forum Kicaumania.org (KM)
Ik hoop KM Vrienden kan hulp u

Droevig, mijn Engels zeer slecht

thanx

#hehehehe....sok kemaki pake boso londo

Aniki
14 December 2007, 10:51 AM
Hello M.ArjandeWeger

Hoe u bent ? boete ?
Welkom dit forum Kicaumania.org (KM)
Ik hoop KM Vrienden kan hulp u

Droevig, mijn Engels zeer slecht

thanx

#hehehehe....sok kemaki pake boso londo

ayo Mr kung.. 2 hari ini uda beli berapa kamus bahasa belanda?? =))

wah si mr arjen bukan robben ini uda lupa ama KM neh... coba Mr kung SMS beliau, bilng mbah blangkon mau mint hibahan.... ;))

kungmania
14 December 2007, 11:16 AM
ayo Mr kung.. 2 hari ini uda beli berapa kamus bahasa belanda?? =))


HAREEE GINEEEE BELI KAMUSS !!!! UDAH NDAK JAMAN OM !!!
lha wong jaman internet makenya juga internet donk ! :)) :)) :))

lha wong tjumin pake Babelfish Translation ... tuh Meneer Arjen kalo mau pake boso londo juga bisa langsung di translate ke linggis ... cuman kalo indo ndak ada ... ntar ndak laku juwalan kamus.

monggo bisa dimanfaatken yg sebesar-besarnya utk biar sok pinter seperti daku ini =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =))

http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

Sorry kok malah jadi OOT yak

Nuwun

Iwan2007
14 December 2007, 11:23 AM
Hi, Om Arjande..

You just come with nice news and pic, thank,s..
welcome to Kicau Mania, Nice to see you in this forum..
enjoy..
all about MB will be more easy as many senior how has expert in MB.

I call you "om" - that not mean that you older than me or you are my uncle.....he...he..this coz, our tradition always call "om" each other to get more close as a big family..

BR_iwan2007

zulu
15 December 2007, 07:27 PM
Dear Mr. Arjande Weger,


First off all I would like to say "Welcome" to join to our situs.
Fuu..fuuu...freeze.. I see, it is cold winter out there and it looks terrible..
Thank you for your kind attention for breeding Muray Batu at your country.

That is beatiful birds, allmost all of them come from Sumatera. The one you have that you call beauty is from North Sumatra knowin as Muray Batu Medan, they singing very beatiful songs. You better save pearl and the others from that cold winter, do not let them cold out there.

For more information about how to make a good breeding, you can access to this link below :
http://kicaumania.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20

I hope you can visit our beautiful country to see what we doing in here to protect that bird from distinguis.

Have a nice day.


Best Regards



Zuprizal Lubis

Aniki
15 December 2007, 08:13 PM
Mr arjen not robben, one question for you, do you remember www.kicaumania.org??

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